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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffLum Edwards Date: Apr 11, 2010 10:23am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fans of 80`s and 90`s Dead be heard!!..for Jerry never sounded better!

I find things I love in all the era's of GD music. If I had to pick one and only one to listen too it would be 70-78. But I also feel that the 70ish GD was A Whole Different Band from the 80's 90's GD. They had changed as everything will with time. I think the exploring they did early was more fun and experimental for them than later one. GD was ever evolving as any band will do if they play together 30 years or so. The 94 GD wasnt the same band as the 69 GD nor should they have been.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Apr 11, 2010 10:48am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fans of 80`s and 90`s Dead be heard!!..for Jerry never sounded better!

I can find much to agree with in some of the posts above; augwst was treated better than might have been expected, IMHO...the notion of "soul" Dire raises is perfectly legit, and he counters it with the point I always make "it nonetheless was degraded", showing that the two of us can take two diff experiences away from it. Me, preferring the early, youthful, undgraded (drugs, smoking, etc.) voice, go for the early era, while Dire, finding appeal in the "soul" (and think of how his near death experiences may have brought this to the fore--I can understand that; perhaps even moreso solo/Grisman as Arb and elb note. Again, he wasn't really enjoying the DEAD machine by that time).

However, to defend the early era purists, which can rightly be critized for "wanting the band to sound young forever (clearly unrealistic), undamaged by drugs and smoking, etc., etc." all you have to do is look at (uh-oh, here I go again) two counter examples: CREAM and BlFaith (ie, recent Winwood/EC tour, I'll label as such for example's sake).

These two groups show individuals that went on to do many different things past what I love about them in the 60s. But here's where they differ from what happened to Jerry: in 2005 and 2009, the individuals involved in these bands got together, and played shows that revealed they could still, ALMOST sound as good as in 1968 and 1969.

Steve Winwood's voice is almost as good; his playing is perhaps better. EC is still able to sound CREAM esque, as are GBak and JBr, and each has only lost a little to age, and some near death experiences (JB not unlike our own Phil).

So, my point is that great bands/ind's do need to grow, experiment, do diff things to keep out of a rut; but without the degradation due to drugs and smoking and fastfood, etc., here we have two examples, CREAM/BlFaith, that COULD get together, and play a show that was ALMOST as good as 68.

Jerry just couldn't do that in 95. He may have had more soul, and still been able to reach us, but what I miss is that if he'd stayed healthy, he might have impressed me as much in 95 as EC/SW/JB/GBak did in 05 and 09.

Right BD?

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Poster: midnight sun Date: Apr 11, 2010 12:54pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fans of 80`s and 90`s Dead be heard!!..for Jerry never sounded better!

Cream had the benefit of many years apart to refuel their intensity......apart from 75 GD never had that luxury (no wonder they stopped rehearsing)

btw, William, those 1967 live Cream cd's you sent are chalk full of incredible jamming, by 68 the vocals sound more palatable but the instrumental fierceness is already beginning to tame, they couldn't possibly re-create that energy level night after night...same is true for the original Mahavishnu lineup, 2 years and the gig was up (will be commenting on Cream/Maha once i give those discs a couple more whirls...fucking hot!)

one of the issues with performing modal/blues forms is things tend to get stale over time no matter how "super" the group may be...GD lasted because they continuously searched for harmonic and rhythmic concepts only paralleled by jazz artists

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Poster: William Tell Date: Apr 11, 2010 1:28pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fans of 80`s and 90`s Dead be heard!!..for Jerry never sounded better!

We shudda waited...I have much more if interested now.

But, you are right--67 is amazing, and it does begin to get a little redundant...

But # 2, it is just amazing to absorb that energy...again, for the 50th time, my bros loved the SF bands, and they came home from CREAM concerts in 67 and 68 as if they had died and gone to heaven...there had to be something to that.

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Poster: light into ashes Date: Apr 11, 2010 1:00pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fans of 80`s and 90`s Dead be heard!!..for Jerry never sounded better!

Although the original poster is more interested in ranting than discussing, he has a point. When Jerry wasn't hacking up or singing like Kermit, he was often singing with more depth & intensity - a more 'heartfelt' style, if you will. I think a song like Stella Blue, for instance, has more passion & dynamics in the early '80s than it did in the early '70s. And other songs he mentions like SotMoon, Days, So Many Roads, would be hard to imagine with that 'clear' young '70s voice.
Actually, in an interview after his coma ('87/88, I think?), Jerry mentions that he's trying to become more of a singer, & that he felt he could do better if he stopped smoking....which was never going to happen!

Anyway, WT - have to disagree with you on that 2005 Cream reunion. I think it's to '68 Cream as '95 Dead is to '68 Dead! Clapton had a scuzzy tone, Baker was weak, they kept getting locked into this rigid disco beat in the solos...

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Apr 11, 2010 2:20pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fans of 80`s and 90`s Dead be heard!!..for Jerry never sounded better!

We saw Clapton in 2005 and it was absolutely unmemorable. Wooden and dead. Classic example of what you guys call "mailing it in." I saw him first in 1974 and there's no comparison.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Apr 11, 2010 3:34pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fans of 80`s and 90`s Dead be heard!!..for Jerry never sounded better!

Well, I dunno about 05; I know we too have disagreed about him in prior exchanges, BUT I know that BD will back up that in the pseudo "BlFaith" reunion in fall of 09, EC was amazing...Winwood as well. Not sure if it was the fact that he so wanted to work with him again, etc., etc., but that was an amazing show...

Now, that said, I actually don't like EC with ANYONE post about 71 (hmmm, sounds familiar I suppose), and esp don't like most everything he did in the 90s and 2000s...til the Winwood shows...

But anyhow, what bothered me about LiA (not liking CREAM in 05, though I will note there are MANY very positive reviews of that reunion in spite of his or my take on it--that was though why I said "almost" as good as 68), and I am not saying you are doing it, cause you aren't, BUT any of us can think of someone that played 40 yrs ago that sounds pretty darn good today...and Jerry just isn't one of those examples.

That was all I was trying to point out. Here would be another: Jimmy Cliff. His shows in 79 are more or less as good as the ones in 06...this I know from being a huge fan, and seeing him many times over the yrs, BUT also from the many reviews by other folks.

So, all I really wanted to say was "sure, most geezer circuit inds/bands/etc, degrade, BUT there are a small number that do not, and those generally are the sorts that don't smoke/overeat/shoot up/etc."

Rest assured, Ring, I know most of what I just posted was in response to LiA's missing my point entirely, not because of you noting that EC, like most geezers, could put on a terrible show...I do agree with that. I just think it's infinitely more probably for that to happen if you are a twinkie filled diabetic chain smoker while smoking heroin to boot....

Do I am seem cranky today? Chalk it up to another Laker's loss!

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Apr 11, 2010 7:52pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fans of 80`s and 90`s Dead be heard!!..for Jerry never sounded better!

I'll echo WT on the EC/Winwood stuff and I saw the last night of the prior EC tour with Derek Trucks and that was great as well. Then again, one was mostly blind faith and a touch of traffic while the other covered derek and the dominoes and channeled the spirit of duane.

As far as geezers go, check out Emmylou sometime. Talk about aging gracefully.

Los Lobos still kick ass live and they ain't that young. They also continue to release interesting new material.

Mudcrutch was one of the best shows I've seen in years and Mr. Petty and Mike Campbell and Benmont Tench are getting a little long in the tooth. I think that effort rejuvenated them all and think Mojo may be a major surprise when it gets released. Crystal River live is the closest I've come to a vintage Jer/Keith moment (Mike specifically cites jer as an inspiration for the tune and his phrasing)

Nels Cline is on the other side of 50 and is fuckin' great. Him with Bill Frissell was a real treat (also another AARP card carrying musician).

Richard Thompson continues to put out stunning material and in my book improves over time. I'll let wordsmith weigh in on that one, but we're talking about a contemporary of Jerry, Eric, Dylan, etc who is probably now more relevant to more people than at any other point in his career.



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Poster: ringolevio Date: Apr 11, 2010 6:41pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fans of 80`s and 90`s Dead be heard!!..for Jerry never sounded better!

>I just think it's infinitely more probably for that to happen if you are a twinkie filled diabetic chain smoker while smoking heroin to boot....

LOL, hard to argue with that.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Apr 11, 2010 2:11pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fans of 80`s and 90`s Dead be heard!!..for Jerry never sounded better!

Well, okay, we can disagree on CREAM 05; but, you will have alot to answer for if you say the same for Winwood and EC (09).

Was gonna say, it's fine to disagree, but misses the point: pick anyone YOU think held onto it longer...there are some examples.

Jerry isn't one...and for that, it's just the truth.

This post was modified by William Tell on 2010-04-11 21:11:17

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